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| QSA ToolWorks Public Feedback Forum > Pre-selling Helix 6 > Pre-Selling Helix 6 | You are not logged in. Login or Register. |
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Matt Posts: 107 Registered: 2003-02-16  mstrange@mac.com  |
 Posted: Mar 11, 2005 7:46:15 pm    
During the last four years we've worked hard to earn your trust, and we are hesitant to do anything that would spoil that. Early on in this journey, we decided that we would not take advance orders for products until they were ready to ship. Yet in view of how close we are to shipping Helix 6 Server and how dire our financial straits, we are considering breaking that rule. So, we ask you, who are as invested in Helix as we are: would you pay for Helix 6 Server now, before it ships, or should we stay the course we've followed to this point? Reply to this posting with your thoughts. Also: be sure to fill out our survey form at qsatoolworks.com/1Product/helix6/vwsurvey.html - Edited by Matt on: Mar 11, 2005 8:41:54 pm
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ercoguru Posts: 4 Registered: 2004-09-12 |
Posted: Mar 11, 2005 10:55:53 pm
Matt asked "...you, who are as invested in Helix as we are: would you pay for Helix 6 Server now, before it ships, or should we stay the course we've followed to this point? Reply to this posting with your thoughts." I don't understand the question as put. If Helix 6 pertains to OS X native Helix Rade, yes. I don't even run a local network nor do I (yet) have a web site. Accordingly, "Helix 6 Server" would seem to be putting the cart before the horse. I also don't use the TCP, etc. that has received recent priority. On the other hand, it eludes me how these esoteric uses could function without getting Helix Rade OS X native. Or am I, as a minority of one, missing something important in what is being said? That being said, accept your nobility in the sacrifices made thus far. No one is as "invested in Helix" as you guys, and if Helix makes it to OS X (native) successfully you deserve more credit (and riches) than is possible to receive. I (very) recently bought 5.3 to give tangible support (but haven't taken the time to play with it yet). Regards, javascript:SetSmiley('  ')ercoguru
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| Matt Posts: 107 Registered: 2003-02-16 mstrange@mac.com |
Posted: Mar 12, 2005 1:19:27 am
The answer to those questions are explained on the page qsatoolworks.com/3EverythingElse/TheLatestWord/2004/apr21.html
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| Ryan Wilcox Posts: 32 Registered: 2003-04-17 |
Posted: Mar 12, 2005 1:23:45 am
Given some of the information contained in the March 11 2005 Latest Word, I can say these things with more authority than I could have just 1 day ago. Yes, Helix 6 Server is coming first. Why? Because, right now, you can't run Helix Server in Classic mode without risking collection corruption. People using Client/Server really want to (be able to) buy faster, more modern machines, but the more modern machines only boot into OS X - and you can't run Helix Server in Classic mode. RADE, Client, and Engine still work great in Classic mode. Only Server has data corruption issues. Our advice for the last 2 or 3 years has been to run Server on machines that are booting into OS 9 - it seems we were right. For this reason, and some slightly more technical ones, we decided to start with Server. I'll let Matt and Gil weight in with more, if/when they want to. (EDIT: Or they already did. See the link Matt gave above for more information, straight from the horse's mouth.) _Ryan "Helen" Wilcox - Edited by Ryan Wilcox on: Mar 12, 2005 1:25:23 am
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| ercoguru Posts: 4 Registered: 2004-09-12 |
 Posted: Mar 12, 2005 2:19:56 am
Thanks Matt, Ryan- I read the referenced page almost as it came out. To someone not using Server or Client, or TCP, or Engine, that information was not an explanation at all. It was a pronouncement that presumably reassurred a lot of people doing things I don't do. I also put the only product I want dead last. I'm not complaining...do whatever floats your boat... If Rade is to be last, so be it. I did not and still do not fully comprehend how all these wonderful side shows do whatever they do independent of Helix Rade, but I don't have to. I'll just accept on faith that they do and go back to sleep. Wake me up again in a year or two (when you've completed Helix Engine), and I'll be happy to pay for Helix Rade in advance. Regards, dmod
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| Charles Dyas Posts: 2 Registered: 2003-08-02 |
 Posted: Mar 12, 2005 2:22:09 am
I can understand Ercogurus comments if you only run Helix in RADE as a single user but for Company use, the importance of having a really solid and up to date Server is paramount. Most programs run now on OSX and the benefits of OSX over OS9 are huge. Apart from anything else it looks better! There are no new macs that you can buy today that will boot up in OS9 so we are presently stuck with legacy hardware and it becomes increasingly difficult to justify to those who don't appreciate the huge merits of Helix that it is worth sweating it out and helping were we can in the financing by buying upgrades, more clients etc and yes upfront for Helix 6 if we can. Just my thoughts 
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| ercoguru Posts: 4 Registered: 2004-09-12 |
 Posted: Mar 12, 2005 1:42:32 pm
I agree 100% with what Charles says. Now, as I understand it, QSA has decided to: 1. Get (in this order) Server, Client and Maint. Utilities OS X Compliant (in that order). That yields the first package of elements you sell (which presently represent an investment of $370 for one person but that all users will need more than one). I hope lots of users need this...I don't. 2. Get Engine and Rade OS X Compliant for the next package (in that order-still don't understand what is in one and what is in the other that merits separate identification and consideration). That yields another package of elements you sell (which presently represent an investment of $200). Obviously EVERYONE needs this. 3. Only at this stage can you do the Developer Tool Kit (which presently represent an investment of $600) and offer it for sale. 4. I sure hope this priority sequence has the greatest potential to induce incremental interim funding. Regards, ercoguru 
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| Matt Posts: 107 Registered: 2003-02-16 mstrange@mac.com |
Posted: Mar 12, 2005 6:07:39 pm
Erco... I sorry, but I need to remind you of one of the rules for participation in this forum. Please read the information on this page... helixtech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1&t_id=3 There you will see that anonymous posting is not permitted on this forum. Please edit your profile to include your real name so we can all know who we are talking with. Thank you,
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dkuchta Posts: 40 Registered: 2003-04-09 |
Posted: Mar 14, 2005 7:33:54 am
Matt: Many moons ago, when Helix was on death's doorstep, a plea went out to people to invest in Helix. It was portrayed as "pre-purchasing" and the claim was that (if I remember correctly) the amount donated plus 10% could be used toward the purchase of Helix 6 products if it ever materialized. I was one of the people who took part in that, but I haven't heard it mentioned since then. Since "pre-purchasing" is being offered again, I was just wondering if that original offer is still being honored. I'm guessing that a number of people participated and a public statement about the status of that offer would probably be a good thing now that Helix 6 Server is just around the corner. -Dan Kuchta
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| Matt Posts: 107 Registered: 2003-02-16 mstrange@mac.com |
Posted: Mar 14, 2005 5:15:34 pm
Dan, you'll have to point me to such a statement to remind me of it. I know that during Helix Technologies/San Diego's death throes, they asked people to take out one year loans, but that company went bankrupt, so that money is apparently long gone. I guess it can now be said that one of the reasons I quit in May of 2002 (autsys.com/helix/20020503.html) was because it became apparent that the money being loaned to Helix Technologies was being used to keep The Chip Merchant going, not to pay engineers to finish the OS X work, as I had been led to believe. Of course, as we know now, within the month of my resignation, Brian called up and asked if we would to take over day-to-day operations, so we were 'the public face' of Helix Technologies when those loans came due, but were in no position to pay them. As anybody who contacted me about that deal knows, I told them to either start calling The Chip Merchant and badgering them for the payback daily (or to have their lawyer do it in a more threatening manner). Since June of 2002, I am only aware of one "fund raiser" with a payback promise: we sold Investor t-shirts for $100 each. That announcement qsatoolworks.com/1Product/store/tshirt.html makes no offer of a 10% bonus. Of course we will honor the investor certificates. We have also stated with each Helix 5.x release that those who stay current will receive reduced upgrade pricing when Helix 6 ships. That is still true, but that can not be construed as a loan in any sense of the word. Personally, I never liked the concept of pre-selling a product, but that experience turned my general dislike into deep loathing. If I was not certain that we are going to ship Helix 6 Server and that this pre-sales will only accelerate that process, I would never have consented to even floating the idea. Although early feedback has been overwhelmingly positive, I'm still not convinced we should do it. The notion gives me a rotten feeling in my gut. - Edited by Matt on: Mar 14, 2005 5:22:29 pm
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keVin Posts: 30 Registered: 2003-04-09 |
 Posted: Mar 14, 2005 9:26:01 pm
This is a familiar situation -- the third time by my count (privately or publicly) -- Helix faithful have been roused to prepay for the OS X version of Helix. Of course QSA ToolWorks is a different company than HT. I can't help but wonder about those who have literally "paid" homage over the years without the benefit of the anticipated reward. The Recovery Team has definitely moved Helix along in a linearly progressive direction. Some things are difficult to estimate and can chew up financial resources -- like the past TCP/IP issue. Likely similar unknown obstacles are ahead -- perhaps even more so with RADE than Server. So we are on the threshold of one critical piece of OS X software. Ercoguru is on target with his thinking for the group of users not utilizing Helix Server. Supposing funds are borrowed to get Helix Server released, advance funds will also be required to finish Helix Client; the same for RADE. Hopefully, there will be a windfall in the end to catch up. If QSA could state with a reasonable degree of certainty that Helix Server is within three months of release, current users with a desire to run it on faster machines may be compelled to pay in advance. Users of RADE or the DTK seem far off the radar at this stage; therefore they would likely be minority supporters at this stage in the game. |
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| dkuchta Posts: 40 Registered: 2003-04-09 |
Posted: Mar 15, 2005 7:38:45 am
Matt: >> Helix Technologies...that company went bankrupt, so that money is apparently long gone No problem. When I "Invested", I considered it much more of a gamble or a donation than an investment. As far as I'm concerned, you should never gamble more than you can afford to lose. As a result, I "invested" an amount that I would be comfortable waving goodbye to. So ... $$$ ... goodbye! :-) As for pre-selling, I'm also uncomfortable with the idea unless its a product that is truly on the doorstep of release. I've seen compnies pre-sell a prodcut that is essentially done, but has not quite finished the CD pressing or manual printing stages. That doesn't bother me. But the problem with selling in advance to finance the actual development is: once its released, you've already spent the money on THAT release. Now how do you finance the next version? I know that Helix is in a "creative financing" mode, but it still makes me uneasy about the future viability of development. I guess the hope is that, once its OS X compatible and marketing can come out of stealth mode, sales will increase enough to finance the next version. Its always an interesting and entertaining journey! Tune in next week to see what shenanigans our hero is up to next :-)
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| adobephile Posts: 4 Registered: 2003-04-09 adobephile |
Posted: Mar 16, 2005 6:34:24 am
Well, I suppose that there could have been more direct survey responses than appear here, but I want to weigh in on the affirmative side to try to balance out the apparent paucity of positive responses to this survey question. As soon as I learned of OS X I dreamed of Helix arriving there, too. But having witnessed Helix nearly going away for good and then making its miraculous turn-around, how can we hold back now, knowing that the Grim Reaper could yet re-visit? Now that we see OS 9's bones bleaching in the sun, I long to release Server from its rattling grasp running in 9 on our yet trusty Cube. But far more than that, I long for a worthy Web client through which I can display my wares dynamically and transact my business. With such a reborn Helix countless others will discover and buy it anew! What's a couple (or a few) hundred risked towards such an end? |
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| keVin Posts: 30 Registered: 2003-04-09 |
Posted: Mar 20, 2005 5:35:10 pm
Given the intangible timeline, it appears a small number of RADE users would prepay for Helix Server (though some in a position to do so would likely contribute more than the upgrade fee). Tossing the figurative ball back in the QSA court, if 50 percent of the registered users of Helix Server 5.0-5.2 prepaid, would it be enough to finance Helix Server 6? If such funds were obtained within 30 days, when could Helix Server be expected? - Edited by keVin on: Mar 20, 2005 5:36:14 pm |
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| Matt Posts: 107 Registered: 2003-02-16 mstrange@mac.com |
Posted: Mar 20, 2005 7:51:27 pm
We aren't considering pre-selling RADE at this time -- it's too far off for that. We are preparing to release Helix 6 Server; that is what we will sell. As to how long?: "When it's done." I don't know how many different ways we've tried to say it, but apparently it isn't getting through: we are working through uncharted territory and we simply don't know how long it will take. Read the story of Helix 5.3. We release a product when it is ready, not a moment sooner nor later.
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